Chris and Paul discuss the early season success of the San Antonio Spurs and their record-setting defense, then transition to the Toronto Raptors and how they’ve managed to keep making ground in a competitive Eastern Conference, despite injuries to their starting frontcourt. For their pop culture segment, they get into the return of the Serial podcast, and season 2’s new focus and the inherent biases in dealing with a contemporary case.
Chris and Paul overreact after the first six days of the NBA regular season and share some thoughts on teams that they’ve watched and teams they need to, beginning with the Detroit Pistons and ending on the San Antonio Spurs, before discussing the recent sports media news.
Chris and Paul discuss NBA team building by highlighting general managers who have adopted interesting strategies and tactics to rebuild their rosters into perennial playoff contenders, and the teams that are on the cusp of escaping the lottery. They then transition to pop culture talk and cover Focus, BoJack Horseman, Bill Simmons signing with HBO, and how out of touch we are with the current rap beef.
Chris and Paul catch up on all the chaos of the NBA offseason by beginning with the DeAndre Jordan hostage situation and subsequent social media response, then touch on Greg Monroe’s signing with the Milwaukee Bucks, the San Antonio Super Spurs, the Boston Celtics’ asset acquisitions, and other assorted free agent signings.
With just about a week left to the 2014-15 NBA season, Chris and Paul spend two hours going through the championship contending teams and identify their best- and worst-case scenarios entering the playoffs.
The Give and Go is a quick back and forth between Paul Mitchell and Chris St. Jean about a relevant subject in the NBA at that moment.
Paul: I’m fascinated by the concept of “Big 3’s”, in relation to the NBA. It’s not a new concept, as the phrase goes back at least to the Los Angeles Lakers teams from the ‘70’s - who added Wilt Chamberlain in trade to their core of Jerry West and Elgin Baylor - but as an NBA fan, post-Michael Jordan, it’s a phrase I hadn’t heard much of in contemporary circles until the Boston Celtics’ trades in 2007. Since then it’s been a trendy narrative device that’s been bastardized by mainstream media outlets, but there’s no denying that there are a greater concentration of star players in today’s NBA than ever before. So let’s focus on the 3rd option in the 2015 version of the “Big 3”. What’s the ideal role of a 3rd option (on a good team)? Is it as simple as a team’s 3rd-leading scorer, or are their responsibilities more diverse? With that said, which is the best 3rd option in the NBA today? Chris: Great question. The tidy narrative driven after the Spurs won their title last season was the victory of ‘The Team’ over the idea of ‘The Big 3’, but then less than two months later, LeBron goes to Cleveland, they trade for Kevin Love and the idea is reborn. That narrative will never go away, even if the Spurs won last season and a team like the Hawks succeed this year. As long as three talented players are on a roster together, someone will throw that term around, so I like your idea of embracing it and exploring our options here. You pose great questions about how to define the 3rd option. To me, there is no definition and hopefully some of my favorite third options in the league can demonstrate what I mean:
Let’s pour some out for one of the most universally adored NBA third options the league has seen in a long time, Wesley Matthews. I wrote in a recent Give and Go that Portland was the team I would be most interested in watching down the stretch. to examine the question “Can they win the title?” That went up in smoke when Matthews went down. Not to mention the amount of money it will cost him.
With Memphis, it’s hard to determine a hierarchy between Marc Gasol, Mike Conley, and Zach Randolph, and players like Courtney Lee, Tony Allen, and Jeff Green are important to what they do. But I’d be hard-pressed to find a more talented trio on any NBA roster out there. Given Marc Gasol’s MVP discussion-worthy start, and Mike Conley officially ‘shedding’ the underrated tag, I think of Randolph as the third banana in this scenario now. And that’s pretty fucking insane to be averaging 16 and 11 as the third banana.
Tony Parker is the engine that drives the Spurs’ offense. As we’ve seen for much of this season, when he’s not playing well, the Spurs don’t play well. Tim Duncan, at the advanced age of 63 is a defensive player of the year candidate and is the foundation upon which the Spurs’ defense is built. To my mind, that makes Kawhi Leonard the third option on a championship-level team. Kawhi can do anything on the basketball floor, but if you removed either Tony or Timmy right now, the burden of carrying one side of the ball might be too much for him.
To your point about the 3rd option being the third-leading scorer, that’s certainly not the case for the Clippers. Crawford and Reddick would be candidates based on scoring, but without a doubt the third most important player on that roster is DeAndre Jordan. He’s been a monster since Blake went down and his shot chart is a testament to the ultimate role player. He knows exactly what his teams asks of him, and that’s what he gives them.
Josh Smith is obviously the third-most important player to this Houston … just kidding. I wanted to make sure you were still paying attention, Mitchell.
If that tells me anything it’s that there is no way to define the 3rd option beyond the third-most important player to a good team. And even that implies you need to rank the top three hierarchically that diminishes the cohesion of a team like Memphis or Atlanta or even Golden State. I blame NBA Jam for this. To most in our age group, NBA Jam can do no wrong, I know. But they boiled down an NBA roster to three players and you can play as any two-man combination of those three players. It’s probably half the reason I fell in love with the Muggsy Bogues, Alonzo Mourning, Larry Johnson trio. Actually, I take that back, it’s not even close to 20% of the reason I fell in love with that team. So what are your thoughts, Mitchell? How do you define a third option and who is your favorite in this NBA season? Mitchell: As is true with any question in life, really, NBA Jam makes a perfect metaphor. I am also guilty of picking the Charlotte Hornets every single time, unless it was the console version that had replaced Muggsy with Kendall Gill and removed Reggie Lewis. Now whether I was influenced by the outsized personalities and marketing campaigns of Muggsy Bogues and Larry “Grandmama” Johnson or by the pretty, baby blue jerseys of the fresh, new franchise I’m not sure, but even back in the days of arcades and quarters, I always appreciated the Hornets’ mix of speed, shooting, strength, shot blocking, and huge dunks. Alonzo Mourning was a must-play. In a standard game, without fouls or hot spots, ‘Zo was a one-man wrecking crew, who would two-hand, novelty shove any offensive player who dared to enter the paint or elevate near his basket. From there I’d have to debate the merits and style of play of LJ or Muggsy to round out my starting duo, unless I felt adventurous and started two offensive players without a rim protector. It never worked out, and I would soon run out of quarters. Defense matters, whether it’s NBA Jam or with third options on good teams. There’s no template or control in the experiment of how to build a title team, as every championship squad has been unique from each other, but there are certain trends that emerge in roster construction. The highest-paid player is often the team’s leading scorer (and leader in usage rate), with the second-highest next. Whether it’s unfair or not, I feel that the defensive burden then falls to the team’s third option, who also needs to consistently score in double-digits against playoff defenses. Basically Chris Bosh, at least as far as recent examples from a really good team. Bosh took plenty of derision from fans and praise from coaches by the end of Miami’s four-consecutive Finals appearances, as a new-age big capable of stretching defenses as a catch-and-shoot player but who was also quick enough to cover the entire court. Sometimes it takes little moments, like grabbing the offensive rebound that led to one of the greatest shots in NBA history, to prove his value, or the long road trips where he’s leading the team in scoring when the team’s other options are out with injury. So I guess flexibility too, along with defensive and offensive competence, or like you said, a good team’s third-best player. But that then gets into the concept of value and how to equate offense vs. defense, and I’m not ready to open that can of worms. Here are my top 5 third options, instead.
Chris Bosh. This might officially be an insult now, after getting paid to be the post-LBJ The Man in Miami and carrying the team before injuries ruined his 2014-15 season, but Bosh has just about perfected his role as a floor-spacer and pick-and-roll blitzer, and I’m sure won’t mind conceding the ball to Dwyane Wade and Goran Dragic.
Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi began the 2014 Finals as the third or fourth option in the Spurs’ offense, but by series’ end was dominating with the ball as the Finals MVP. Tim Duncan has been the most consistent Spur and Tony Parker the most crucial to the team’s success, while Leonard provides them with another level of upside. It’s no coincidence that as he’s returned to the lineup this season the San Antonio Spurs have gotten hot.
Serge Ibaka. Serge has always been underrated as a third option who clearly knows his limitations in playing with two of the league’s best players on a nightly basis. He’s extended his face-up game to the three-point line while doubling as the league’s second-leading shot blocker, and yet still leaves me wanting to see more from him as a player. If he never gets better he’s safe on this list due to his defensive impact, but if he ever adds a post game or desire to draw free throws, he’s a future Finals MVP.
Draymond Green. This might be a stretch until he can prove it in this year’s playoffs. Draymond checks all of the boxes I need from my third options, besides maybe the consistent ability to get his own shot, but he locks in on the defensive end, provides spacing options from the power forward spot, and offers intangibles for days on the league’s most dominant team. Dude’s gonna get paid.
Kevin Love. I’m going to cheat here and screw over Mike Conley or Wes Matthews or Paul Millsap/Jeff Teague in favor of criticizing Kevin Love. Love is a great example of the almost cruel irony in today’s NBA economics, where he became a star player on a rookie contract in a small market and never really had the coaching or veteran culture around him to flesh out the rest of his game (outside of his insane scoring and rebounding numbers). As a result his teams struggled and he asked out, and ended up in a situation that has the scoring and rebounding covered but needs Love to play defense and do the little things.
His tenure so far in Cleveland is really interesting, as he might even be a better player than the team’s second option in Kyrie Irving, but Love is the one eliciting the “James Jones and Mike Miller” comparisons this season. He’s an insanely skilled player that has yet to figure out how to pick his spots in a complementary role around LeBron James and Kyrie, but despite the tremendous talent gap, you have to wonder how the Cavs would look with Draymond Green as their third option over Love.
Chris and Paul cover a bunch of NBA teams in about 40 minutes, starting with the Memphis Grizzlies and Golden State Warriors, and then talk some Serial, True Detective, and other random podcasts and TV shows.
In the final podcast before the start of the 2014-15 NBA season, Chris and Paul finish up their season previews by discussing their five title contenders. They finish by breaking down each conference's playoff teams and possible MVP candidates, but also cover the value of the mid-range jump shot, Byron Scott's disdain for 3's and analytics, and if the Milwaukee Bucks can scrap the 8th seed in the Eastern Conference.
The San Antonio Spurs will enter the 2014-15 season as the defending champions and deepest team in the league, with as great an opportunity as any in their franchise’s history to repeat as champions. Their entire team from last year was retained by general manager R.C. Buford this offseason, plus draft pick Kyle Anderson with the last pick in the 2014 NBA Draft, giving the Spurs a solid 13 or so players on the roster (depending on how you feel about Jeff Ayres or Austin Daye). Head coach Gregg Popovich will again attempt to limit his players’ minutes to under 30 per game to utilize his depth and keep his starters healthy for the playoffs, as three bench players last season averaged double figures in points per game. Tim Duncan, future Hall of Famer and one of the greatest players in the game’s history, will return for his 17th season, joining fellow-future Hall of Famers Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and Popovich. As in last years’ playoffs with the San Antonio Spurs, though, their upside as a team and title favorite lie with their fourth-year small forward, Kawhi Leonard.
In retrospect, the 2013-14 season
of the Oklahoma City Thunder came down to Game 5 of the Western Conference
Finals. The San Antonio Spurs quickly gained the 2-0 advantage after the first
two games in Texas, but the return of Serge Ibaka allowed the Thunder defense
to even up the series before heading back to San Antonio for the pivotal fifth
game. Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich substituted shooter Matt Bonner into the
starting lineup in place of center Tiago Splitter, and it was the overall depth
of the Spurs and the 55-26 disparity in bench scoring that cost the Thunder the
game. A five-point loss in overtime of Game 6 sealed their season, and general
manager Sam Presti’s approach to building the 2014-15 team began with
addressing the roster’s depth and bench issues in the offseason.
Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph (photo credit not found)
Marc Gasol has single-handedly validated the Pau Gasol trade
for the Memphis Grizzlies. Never have two brothers been traded for each other
in NBA history, and rarely have the draft rights to second-round picks been the
foundation of a trade for a franchise player before. The trade was decisively derided as the
Grizzlies giving away talent to the big-market Los Angeles Lakers, as the other
pieces to the trade were Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie, and two
first round picks that each became the #28 picks in the 2008 and 2010 NBA
Drafts. Marc Gasol, meanwhile, would return to his adopted-home in Memphis
after his “college” years in his home country of Spain, and, six seasons later, will
assuredly hit free agency next summer before re-signing with the Memphis
Grizzlies.
Chris and Paul wrap up the 2014 FIBA World Cup Tournament before discussing NBA news, including management drama in Atlanta, and contract extensions for the draft class of 2011, and conclude on episode 6 of their "30 Rock" summer/autumn rewatch.
6’5” (6’10” wingspan), 209 lbs., 07/08/1994 (19 years old)
Should we really be bothering the San Antonio Spurs already? Can’t we give general manager R.C. Buford and head coach Gregg Popovich a chance to go on vacation without bothering them with trivialities like the NBA Draft?
Would you believe the Spurs have never drafted 30th in the Tim Duncan era? I thought for sure they finished with the NBA’s best record at least once in Timmy’s 17 seasons but no; the Spurs settled for one pick at #29 (guard Cory Joseph in 2011) and six times selecting 28th (including future-Finals MVP Tony Parker in ‘01).
Every year it seems that today comes longer to hoop heads,
that the wait is unusually more agonizing and the offseason more arduous than
the one preceding it. A quick mathematical investigation on my part has shown
that this NBA summer has been, in fact, as consistently long as in previous
years. If anything, that amazing Spurs/Heat Finals going seven games actually
afforded us a few extra days of sweet, sweet basketball, compared to the five
game LeBron/Durant Showdown of 2012. The offseason has not lacked for
entertainment or drama either, as fans in Houston/Los Angeles and
Brooklyn/Boston would, respectively, probably characterize it. And while some
franchises might enter hibernation earlier this winter, there are glimmers of
hope and change in other corners of the NBA map.
This season is going to be spectacular, by all accounts. As
is true in every other of the NBA’s near-70 year existence, not every team has
a realistic shot at a championship. 2013-14 might even feature a record run of
rebuilding and futility from franchises, even as the first (honest, if not
anonymous) general manager details why this might already be a lost season and it’s not even Halloween yet. But,
for the first time in my 15+ years as an NBA fan, you can make a case that
every one of the 30 organizations at least has a plan in place.
Think about that for a second, and think of how rare that
premise has been in recent seasons. Even Donald Sterling can’t screw his own organization up anymore! We’re going to see plenty of bad teams this year and many blowout losses,
but even the stingiest of rosters is assembled with a clear goal in mind that
makes sense: this upcoming draft is going to be really good and rookie
contracts are better values than free agent contracts.
For the most part we’re not seeing traditionally bad
organizations target mediocrity or drift aimlessly through another NBA season.
With the settled situation in Sacramento, another lottery season might be
realistic, but stability and new ownership has sparked optimism, and a big
trade wouldn’t surprise anyone. Phoenix and Philadelphia might be openly bereft
of talent (and are probably the odds-on favorites to have supplied that
previous passage to Mr. Goodman) but with draft picks and playing time for
young prospects, you can’t say they’re quote-unquote “tanking” (UGH) or being
cheap or disingenuous to their fanbases.
Boston is in the nascent stages of their long-term rebuild,
and a franchise-altering lottery pick in 2014 would be a nice block to build
upon. Charlotte has been bad while trying to be good, and an Al Jefferson
signing, plus Kemba/Gerald/MKG, helps make them watchable while still staying
semi-flexible in their search for a franchise guy. While they’re not the
laughing stock of the league this season after two historically inept
campaigns, they should still be in lottery contention in the #RigginforWiggins
or #TankSafariforJabari efforts. Orlando is firmly in year two of their
post-Dwight existence, with a solid collection of assets and a coach that has
already installed a culture. Utah’s situation is slightly different, in that
they’ve developed their young core alongside positive veterans in Jeff, Milsap
and (gulp) Jamaal Tinsley, and while an overachieve to a playoff spot wouldn’t
be the worst thing in the world, an impact lottery pick (from the wing/guard
spot?) would bolster a more realistic 2015 playoff push.
It’s probably a good thing that the NBA mediocrity, the 7-10
seeds in each conference, are mostly inhabited by younger teams who hope that
an entrance into the playoffs portends bigger things to their futures.
Minnesota, Denver, Portland, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Toronto, Washington and the
Pelicans (!) all feature a young core with legitimate playoff aspirations,
where even a short series pounding against a Miami, Chicago, Indiana, San
Antonio, or Oklahoma City would go well towards seasoning that core or
persuading bitter franchise guys to stick around.
It’s the older teams settling in at that .500 level that are
the most frustrating franchises this season. While Mark Cuban asserts that
three year deals are the new market inefficiency,
it’s still an older team with questionable personnel fits that will struggle to
defend. The Lakers might be better served to sit the season out, settle their
chemistry issues and develop a long-term plan, especially with so many upcoming
marquee free agents with LA ties. Instead they’re pulling a 2012 Cuban and spending
money on one-year deals, hoping that fitting players into a coaching scheme
will get them to the playoffs. But then what?
The legitimate playoff teams stay scheming to claim the
throne. We’ll see if the Atlanta’s and Knicks’s of the league can compete while
transitioning their teams to what could be a different look next season.
Brooklyn and Golden State found that they enjoyed their playoff debuts last
year and made commitments to hopefully surpass their successes of a season ago.
Organizations like the Heat, Spurs, Bulls, Pacers, Grizzlies and Thunder
preferred to rely on internal improvements to augment their rosters. They might
enter the season slept on but are all veteran teams with confidence and an
identity.
The most interesting teams might be the ones on the title
periphery, who were mere bounces or breaks away from taking Miami or San
Antonio’s spots in 2013. An offseason of confidence could do wonders to the
next teams up, who made mostly minor alterations: a beefed up bench or an extra
shooter to space the floor or someone to defend the LeBrons or Tony Parkers
that they will have to vanquish on their journey to NBA immortality.
And the kings stay the kings. Once they sublimated their
egos enough to embrace their revolution on the game, the only thing that can
beat the Heat might truly be free agency. Injuries to Dwyane and Bosh weren’t
enough to knock them off. Boxing matches with the Pacers and Bulls, and burying
their Boston rivals once and for all, couldn’t do it either, it only weakened
them enough to enable their Western foes to get close. But when backed against
the wall, a spot they’ve been in more times than any other recent dynasty since
the Rockets of the mid-90’s,
they’ve regrouped, summoned their resolve and unleashed historical performances on the macro and micro levels (see video below ). As a dynasty, they’ve raised the games of everyone around them, bringing out
the best in their adversaries and creating history, while ushering in perhaps
an evolution to a style of play that for 40 years had been derided as a
gimmick.
Oh yeah, and we’ve seen one of the handful of most talented
athletes ever realize his potential, develop his game and basically mature
while acting as the league’s most popular player and outright villain. We
knocked LeBron James for not being clutch (whatever that means). Then we picked
apart his lack of a post game. Finally we wondered if he could stand up,
mentally, to the rigors of being the target and to dominate every night while
elevating his game in the playoffs. Now we’re honestly just wondering where
he’ll play next and how many potential championships that could swing.
