Episode 079 - Take Two with Brady Jennings

Paul returns for the first podcast in months and talks to Brady Jennings about everything from the historical ramifications of the 2015-16 NBA season, to pessimism in politics, to the start of the 2016 MLB season.

The Give and Go: 2016 Champions

LBJ: The Whole F'ing Show (Kim Klement/USA TODAY Sports)

The Give and Go is a quick back and forth between Paul Mitchell and Chris St. Jean about a relevant subject in the NBA at that moment.

Paul: Let’s keep it real simple this week, Chris: Which team wins the 2015-16 NBA Championship?

Episode 072 - Tier-ing Through the Eastern Conference

Chris and Paul return after a temporary hiatus to preview the Eastern Conference by separating its teams into tiers. They get into their title contender, candidates for the second-best team in the conference, why Paul was wrong about this Boston Celtics roster, and which playoff hopefuls are a couple of breaks away and which teams need a drastic change.

Episode 064 - NBA Finals Recap and Draft Preview

The NBA’s offseason is here, and before Chris and Paul get into the NBA Draft and their favorite prospects, they first begin by recapping the 2015 NBA Finals and the Golden State Warriors’ complete team victory, small-ball strategy, and LeBron James’s historical dominance. As always they end on some pop culture talk, including Daredevil Episode 3, the Season 5 finale of Game of Thrones, and some miscellaneous TV talk (Community, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, True Detective Season 2).

Episode 063 - NBA Finals Preview

Chris and Paul preview the 2015 NBA Finals and the hype and various narratives leading up to it, transition to some recent coaching hires, and then wrap up on the second episode of Netflix’s “Daredevil” and the series finale of “Mad Men”.

Episode 062 - The Conference Finals Round and Draft Lottery

Chris and Paul delve into the Conference Finals and the Draft Lottery results, before wrapping up with some talk on TV, books, and movies.

Episode 061 - The Atlanta Hawks and the Conference Finals

In Episode 61, Paul welcomes Brady Jennings (of True Hoop’s Brooklyn’s Finest) on to talk about the Atlanta Hawks and the NBA playoffs, the Atlanta Braves, and to find out what he’s watching.

Episode 058 - Title Contenders

With just about a week left to the 2014-15 NBA season, Chris and Paul spend two hours going through the championship contending teams and identify their best- and worst-case scenarios entering the playoffs.

The Give and Go: Third Options

Darryl Norenberg/Wire Image

The Give and Go is a quick back and forth between Paul Mitchell and Chris St. Jean about a relevant subject in the NBA at that moment.

Paul: I’m fascinated by the concept of “Big 3’s”, in relation to the NBA. It’s not a new concept, as the phrase goes back at least to the Los Angeles Lakers teams from the ‘70’s - who added Wilt Chamberlain in trade to their core of Jerry West and Elgin Baylor - but as an NBA fan, post-Michael Jordan, it’s a phrase I hadn’t heard much of in contemporary circles until the Boston Celtics’ trades in 2007. Since then it’s been a trendy narrative device that’s been bastardized by mainstream media outlets, but there’s no denying that there are a greater concentration of star players in today’s NBA than ever before.

So let’s focus on the 3rd option in the 2015 version of the “Big 3”. What’s the ideal role of a 3rd option (on a good team)? Is it as simple as a team’s 3rd-leading scorer, or are their responsibilities more diverse? With that said, which is the best 3rd option in the NBA today?

Chris: Great question. The tidy narrative driven after the Spurs won their title last season was the victory of ‘The Team’ over the idea of ‘The Big 3’, but then less than two months later, LeBron goes to Cleveland, they trade for Kevin Love and the idea is reborn. That narrative will never go away, even if the Spurs won last season and a team like the Hawks succeed this year. As long as three talented players are on a roster together, someone will throw that term around, so I like your idea of embracing it and exploring our options here.

You pose great questions about how to define the 3rd option. To me, there is no definition and hopefully some of my favorite third options in the league can demonstrate what I mean:

• Let’s pour some out for one of the most universally adored NBA third options the league has seen in a long time, Wesley Matthews. I wrote in a recent Give and Go that Portland was the team I would be most interested in watching down the stretch. to examine the question “Can they win the title?” That went up in smoke when Matthews went down. Not to mention the amount of money it will cost him.   

• With Memphis, it’s hard to determine a hierarchy between Marc Gasol, Mike Conley, and Zach Randolph, and players like Courtney Lee, Tony Allen, and Jeff Green are important to what they do. But I’d be hard-pressed to find a more talented trio on any NBA roster out there. Given Marc Gasol’s MVP discussion-worthy start, and Mike Conley officially ‘shedding’ the underrated tag, I think of Randolph as the third banana in this scenario now. And that’s pretty fucking insane to be averaging 16 and 11 as the third banana.
• Tony Parker is the engine that drives the Spurs’ offense. As we’ve seen for much of this season, when he’s not playing well, the Spurs don’t play well. Tim Duncan, at the advanced age of 63 is a defensive player of the year candidate and is the foundation upon which the Spurs’ defense is built. To my mind, that makes Kawhi Leonard the third option on a championship-level team. Kawhi can do anything on the basketball floor, but if you removed either Tony or Timmy right now, the burden of carrying one side of the ball might be too much for him.   
• To your point about the 3rd option being the third-leading scorer, that’s certainly not the case for the Clippers. Crawford and Reddick would be candidates based on scoring, but without a doubt the third most important player on that roster is DeAndre Jordan. He’s been a monster since Blake went down and his shot chart is a testament to the ultimate role player. He knows exactly what his teams asks of him, and that’s what he gives them.
• Josh Smith is obviously the third-most important player to this Houston … just kidding. I wanted to make sure you were still paying attention, Mitchell.

If that tells me anything it’s that there is no way to define the 3rd option beyond the third-most important player to a good team. And even that implies you need to rank the top three hierarchically that diminishes the cohesion of a team like Memphis or Atlanta or even Golden State.

I blame NBA Jam for this. To most in our age group, NBA Jam can do no wrong, I know. But they boiled down an NBA roster to three players and you can play as any two-man combination of those three players. It’s probably half the reason I fell in love with the Muggsy Bogues, Alonzo Mourning, Larry Johnson trio. Actually, I take that back, it’s not even close to 20% of the reason I fell in love with that team.  

So what are your thoughts, Mitchell? How do you define a third option and who is your favorite in this NBA season?



Mitchell: As is true with any question in life, really, NBA Jam makes a perfect metaphor. I am also guilty of picking the Charlotte Hornets every single time, unless it was the console version that had replaced Muggsy with Kendall Gill and removed Reggie Lewis. Now whether I was influenced by the outsized personalities and marketing campaigns of Muggsy Bogues and Larry “Grandmama” Johnson or by the pretty, baby blue jerseys of the fresh, new franchise I’m not sure, but even back in the days of arcades and quarters, I always appreciated the Hornets’ mix of speed, shooting, strength, shot blocking, and huge dunks.

Alonzo Mourning was a must-play. In a standard game, without fouls or hot spots, ‘Zo was a one-man wrecking crew, who would two-hand, novelty shove any offensive player who dared to enter the paint or elevate near his basket. From there I’d have to debate the merits and style of play of LJ or Muggsy to round out my starting duo, unless I felt adventurous and started two offensive players without a rim protector. It never worked out, and I would soon run out of quarters.

Defense matters, whether it’s NBA Jam or with third options on good teams. There’s no template or control in the experiment of how to build a title team, as every championship squad has been unique from each other, but there are certain trends that emerge in roster construction. The highest-paid player is often the team’s leading scorer (and leader in usage rate), with the second-highest next. Whether it’s unfair or not, I feel that the defensive burden then falls to the team’s third option, who also needs to consistently score in double-digits against playoff defenses.

Basically Chris Bosh, at least as far as recent examples from a really good team. Bosh took plenty of derision from fans and praise from coaches by the end of Miami’s four-consecutive Finals appearances, as a new-age big capable of stretching defenses as a catch-and-shoot player but who was also quick enough to cover the entire court. Sometimes it takes little moments, like grabbing the offensive rebound that led to one of the greatest shots in NBA history, to prove his value, or the long road trips where he’s leading the team in scoring when the team’s other options are out with injury.

So I guess flexibility too, along with defensive and offensive competence, or like you said, a good team’s third-best player. But that then gets into the concept of value and how to equate offense vs. defense, and I’m not ready to open that can of worms. Here are my top 5 third options, instead.

1. Chris Bosh. This might officially be an insult now, after getting paid to be the post-LBJ The Man in Miami and carrying the team before injuries ruined his 2014-15 season, but Bosh has just about perfected his role as a floor-spacer and pick-and-roll blitzer, and I’m sure won’t mind conceding the ball to Dwyane Wade and Goran Dragic.
2. Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi began the 2014 Finals as the third or fourth option in the Spurs’ offense, but by series’ end was dominating with the ball as the Finals MVP. Tim Duncan has been the most consistent Spur and Tony Parker the most crucial to the team’s success, while Leonard provides them with another level of upside. It’s no coincidence that as he’s returned to the lineup this season the San Antonio Spurs have gotten hot.
3. Serge Ibaka. Serge has always been underrated as a third option who clearly knows his limitations in playing with two of the league’s best players on a nightly basis. He’s extended his face-up game to the three-point line while doubling as the league’s second-leading shot blocker, and yet still leaves me wanting to see more from him as a player. If he never gets better he’s safe on this list due to his defensive impact, but if he ever adds a post game or desire to draw free throws, he’s a future Finals MVP.
4. Draymond Green. This might be a stretch until he can prove it in this year’s playoffs. Draymond checks all of the boxes I need from my third options, besides maybe the consistent ability to get his own shot, but he locks in on the defensive end, provides spacing options from the power forward spot, and offers intangibles for days on the league’s most dominant team. Dude’s gonna get paid.
5. Kevin Love. I’m going to cheat here and screw over Mike Conley or Wes Matthews or Paul Millsap/Jeff Teague in favor of criticizing Kevin Love. Love is a great example of the almost cruel irony in today’s NBA economics, where he became a star player on a rookie contract in a small market and never really had the coaching or veteran culture around him to flesh out the rest of his game (outside of his insane scoring and rebounding numbers). As a result his teams struggled and he asked out, and ended up in a situation that has the scoring and rebounding covered but needs Love to play defense and do the little things.  His tenure so far in Cleveland is really interesting, as he might even be a better player than the team’s second option in Kyrie Irving, but Love is the one eliciting the “James Jones and Mike Miller” comparisons this season. He’s an insanely skilled player that has yet to figure out how to pick his spots in a complementary role around LeBron James and Kyrie, but despite the tremendous talent gap, you have to wonder how the Cavs would look with Draymond Green as their third option over Love.

Episode 051 - All-Star Reserves & Streaking Teams

In Episode 51, Chris and Paul discuss the just-announced All-Star reserves, some streaking teams, and the New England Patriots/Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl.

Episode 050 - Crowd-Sourcing the Second Half

Chris and Paul celebrate their 50th episode with a three-part podcast that features some NBA news, a crowd-sourcing project where they check in with fans of a few different franchises, and a couple of classic clips from old episodes.

Twitter Explosion: J.R. Smith and Dion Waiters In the Same Trade?

Credit: AP Photo/ Bill Kostroun &
Kent Smith/NBAE via Getty Images

The Give and Go is a quick back and forth between Paul Mitchell and Chris St. Jean about a relevant subject in the NBA at that moment.

Chris:  Alright Mitchell, after a holiday hiatus we’re back and on Monday night of the first ‘back to work’ week of the new year there was a Twitter explosion.  Half of the fun was the crazy rumors (Reggie Jackson to the Knicks) flying around when the trade happened, as even Woj wasn’t quite sure what was happening.  After the dust settled, here’s the deal:

The Cavs acquire Iman Shumpert and J. R. Smith and a 2015 protected first round pick (OKC).

The Oklahoma City Thunder acquire Dion Waiters.

The New York Knicks acquire Lance Thomas (OKC), Alex Kirk (CLE), Lou Amundson (CLE), and a 2019 second round pick (in a pure salary dump).

So, Mitchell, what just happened?

Episode 042 - Title Contending Teams and MVP/Playoff Picks

In the final podcast before the start of the 2014-15 NBA season, Chris and Paul finish up their season previews by discussing their five title contenders. They finish by breaking down each conference's playoff teams and possible MVP candidates, but also cover the value of the mid-range jump shot, Byron Scott's disdain for 3's and analytics, and if the Milwaukee Bucks can scrap the 8th seed in the Eastern Conference.

2014-15 NBA Season Preview: Cleveland Cavaliers

Kyrie Irving, LeBron James, and Kevin Love
(Lisa DeJong/The Cleveland Plain Dealer)

It’s still weeks before the start of the regular season and the very concept of the Cleveland Cavaliers as a super team with serious championship aspirations is still a little strange. The franchise has had its moments of futility throughout its 44-year history, but also NBA and Conference Finals appearances over the last ten years. LeBron James may be the constant to their periods of contention, but the composition, and potential upside, of the team around him is vastly different than those veteran-laden teams of the mid-to-late ‘aughts.

2014-15 NBA Season Preview: Andrew Wiggins

 
The last time the # 1 overall pick was traded before even suiting up for the team that drafted him was in the 1993 draft.  Chris Webber was taken first overall by the Orlando Magic and traded to the Golden State Warriors for Anfernee Hardaway and a few first round picks.  A month before the draft if someone told me that the first pick in this draft (whoever it ended up being) was going to get traded in August, I would have called that person a fool.  Then a series of unbelievable events happened to get us here. First, Cleveland, with a 1.7% chance of winning the lottery, somehow won the lottery (which pissed off Celtics and Lakers fans more than you would believe).  Second, Lebron goes home.  And Third, after Cleveland GM David Griffin was hesitant to include Andrew Wiggins in a potential Kevin Love deal, Glen Taylor and Dan Gilbert undermined their employees by reportedly agreeing in Las Vegas that Wiggins would be part of the eventual deal.

Episode 035 - Injuries, Trades, and Football!

Chris and Paul discuss the Team USA news (Paul George's injury, Kevin Durant's withdrawal), the Kevin Love trade, some NFL preview stuff, and hip-hop groups.

Episode 032 - Free Agency

Chris and Paul delve into NBA free agency and the monumental LeBron James decision by discussing the moves so far this summer and the first week of summer league action.

Episode 031 - NBA Draft Recap

Chris and Paul recap the entire 2014 NBA Draft.

Episode 030 - Crazy Thursday

Chris and Paul celebrate their 30th episode this year with a 3-man podcast with their friend, Jay Collard. They discuss the crazy Thursday that set off a bunch of NBA news, including more Kevin Love trade rumors and the untimely injury to Joel Embiid, for the first 30 minutes then finish up with the season finale to the fourth season of HBO's A Game of Thrones.

# 1 Overall Pick - Cleveland Cavaliers

via Erik Drost on Flickr

What I’d Do

Joel Embiid - Kansas

7’0” (7’5” Wingspan), 240 lbs, 03/16/1994 (20 years old)

Cleveland again?!?  Forget about the Lebron aftermath.  During Kyrie’s ROY campaign just two seasons ago this team was a contender for the must watch League Pass team.  Kyrie was lighting it up; playing like a young Tony Parker who could shoot from anywhere.  The team was still bad, but it had all kinds of promise.  We all know what happened next.  The Cavs drafted Dion Waiters over guys like Harrison Barnes, Andre Drummond, Terrence Ross, and Damian Lillard.  

That didn’t go so well, but the Cavs were rewarded with the number one pick once again.  Now we can talk about the disappointing season that Anthony Bennett had last season, but take a look at that draft.  Bennett had a rough start to his career (shoulder injury, out of shape, immediate loss of confidence, serious lack of minutes for a # 1 pick), but I’m not sold yet that Anthony Bennett can’t be a solid starter on a very good team years down the road.  Regardless though, the Cavs shocked the world by winning the lottery yet again this year and although many NBA fans might be suffering from ‘winning-the-lottery-fatigue’, Cleveland fans should be ecstatic.

Here’s where Mitchell would make the ‘bad ownership’ argument, and let’s face it, he’s right.  Bad ownership can cause all sorts of problems, especially when they don’t realize they’re a bad owner.  That sounds like the Cavs situation to a T.  However, David Griffin takes over as GM this year and with the right moves, and lack of ownership interference, Cleveland could once again be a League Pass must watch this year.

With the number one pick, though, comes the pressure to get it right.  Even more so for this team after Anthony Bennett’s rookie season.  The consensus is building: Joel Embiid has the best chance to be a franchise player in this draft (obligatory back injury caveat here).  Chad Ford did him a disservice by comparing him to a young Akeem Olajuwon.  Chad knew better.  He can make his case that he only meant ‘at that stage in their development’, but he knew the impact of  throwing that name out there.  The Tim Duncan comparisons have come too.  Again,  not fair.

For comparison, I like to start with size.  It’s the most measureable, and objective comparison we can make with these prospects.  Joel Embiid has the body of Javale McGee.  Legit 7’0” with a 7’5” wingspan and light of foot enough (240lbs, but will likely need to bulk up a bit to defend in the post) to have similar (if not better) mobility.  Embiid will likely be every bit as dangerous as McGee is in transition.  Expect the Kyrie to Embiid lob to be a staple in the Top 10 plays next season.  

Embiid is a former volleyball and soccer player that is still learning the game of basketball.  He will be a project.  His size, agility, and surprising skill will allow him to succeed early, but it will take him some time to understand the NBA game, especially on the defensive side of the ball.  With his size and agility, he could develop into a Joakim Noah-like defender.  

On offense, well, let’s just say he may be in the running to lead the league in turnovers.  He’s still learning the sport.  His post game is raw and he’s not good at recognizing what the defense is doing.  He has touch though, and his first step could be lethal against 7 footers in the league.

Whether they go Embiid, Wiggins, or Parker maybe the most important off-season decision for this team is who they hire as coach to develop these young players.  It’s rumored they made quite the offer to Calipari, but the well-respected Terry Pluto is making the case for David Blatt to bring his international style. Blatt, a former head coach of the Israeli and Russian National teams recently won the EuroLeague with Maccabi Tel Aviv.  As is always the case, the rest of the league is always trying to mimic the champs.  With this move, David Griffin would be looking to move towards the up-tempo, offensive style that values shooting and passing.  First though, you need the big man in the middle.

What I Think They Will Do

At this point, they are probably too scared not to pick Embiid. The only way I see Cleveland passing on him is if there is some bad news about the back issue. Embiid’s camp has been very quiet about it, and I don’t expect that to change.  This may all be sorted out today, when Embiid visits Cleveland and will reportedly undergo a medical evaluation as well as work out.

Centers with his potential just don’t come along that often.  It may duplicate some of the parts on this team, but all that stuff will be sorted in a couple years.

Crazy Draft Day Trade

Maybe the pressure of drafting first again is too much for Cleveland and they want to slide down out of the spotlight.  If they could convince the 76ers to swap # 3 and # 10 for # 1, they stay in the tier of the top three, and can add another lottery pick.  The 76ers would trot out the rookie frontline of Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel, spacing be damned.  Wiggins might be the most natural positional fit with the currently constituted Cavs roster and with the 10 pick they could find Dion Waiters’s eventual replacement in Nik Stauskus or Rodney Hood, either of which would fit better alongside Kyrie than Dion does.